To The NSW “Right”

Dear NSW Right,

Please. Cut it out. Please. I beg you.

Just for a few days.You can get back to it then. Just hold a cease-fire for now. Because  there is greater game afoot.

We have in front of us the biggest household tax in decades, the greatest example of big-government micro-management since Whitlam. Something that if passed, shall utterly decimate our economy.

I do not care who is right or who is wrong. I really don’t. I’m over it. All I know is that if you dedicated just 1% of the time you have put into internal squabbling, then the ETS would be dead and dusted.I don’t care if you’re hard core Latin Rite, or if you’re  a disciple of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. The one thing we shall all agree on is that Rudd’s ETS will raise taxes, kill jobs, and do nothing for the environment. If this goes  ahead, future generations will be laden with irrevocable debt. Yet you have done nothing to stop it. How can you have this on your conscience?

Just think of all the time invested into this fight. Even if a fraction of it was put towards telling our MP’s the truth, how different it would be.

Please. I beg you. Just for a few days. Lay aside your differences, and work towards our common goal. Please. Australia’s future depends upon it.

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37 Responses to “To The NSW “Right””

  1. Manny C Says:

    You said: “The one thing we shall all agree on is that Rudd’s ETS will raise taxes, kill jobs, and do nothing for the environment.”

    Wrong. Although you know the factions better than I do, from my limited exposure to Clarke’s boys, they tend to spend a lot of time tell each other they hate certain segments of the population. They are cultural conservatives and have little interest in small government.

    Whereas those on the other side of the mud flinging tend to have a more sensible approach to cultural issues and greater emphasis on selling small government.

  2. Manny C Says:

    Oh and by the way I agree with what you said about ceasefire. In the immortal words of Springer, “I got better things to do tonight than die”.

  3. Tim Andrews Says:

    No, I don’t accept that. I think that even people who I don’t agree with on some social issues have the right idea on this.

    heck, even the greens hate the ETS – we must remember, after all, that Cap & trade was designed by ENRON as a corrupt money making scheme, yet for soem strange reason peopel are still falling for it.

    we have only a few days to make a difference.

  4. Tim Humphries Says:

    When is the joint party room meeting going to be held on sunday?

  5. Gary Says:

    Manny C,
    You even tried to spin this post into the factional BS? haahahaha. Incredible.

    Tim
    This may have something do with factional warfare in one state, but a total lack of leadership within the parliamentry party is the main reason.

    The Liberals don’t have a clear message for the public, and our Federal Leader has set out values that the foot-soldiers can’t rally behind.

  6. Alex Says:

    Yeah Tim, I agree with you on this one re the ETS Scheme.

    Maybe we could get someone to get your (and many others’) message across in a similar form to the ‘Not Evil Just Wrong’ film. It seems (from my very limited sources) to be having an impact (although small I’m sure) and it hasn’t even been released yet.

  7. Jonathon Says:

    I used to think Alex Hawke was conviction politician, but he hasn’t come out against the ETS as much as say Bernardi has. I think it can only be explained through Alex trying to be close to Malcolm.

  8. Tim Andrews Says:

    Jonathon – if that is the case, what have you done personally to lobby him?

  9. Manny C Says:

    Alex I think is struggling to resolve ideological conviction with electoral success. And after you read this (well the bits that you can understand), you might understand the difficulties involved in this:
    http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2009/10/gentle-introduction-to-unqualified.html

  10. Manny C Says:

    Agree with Gary on his last point that ETS will pass because the Federal Liberal Party under Malcolm Turnbull is screwed.

  11. Tim Andrews Says:

    Manny – if that is the case, it is purely and simply because the everyone is far too busy fighting each other withing hte party to mount an effective opposition.

  12. B. P. M. Says:

    It’s not just the federal party that has no real leadership or principles; the NSW state parliamentary wing is even more shambolic. No wonder the Liberals poll so poorly. The choice of both federal and state leaders is very telling – says the Liberals are a party of populism rather than principles and/or talent. I can count on one hand the number of NSW politicians (both state AND federal) that I have any respect for, and still have fingers left over.

    It’s all very frustrating and to be honest wasting my time on a party that doesn’t even bother with the rhetoric of small government any more (let alone any concrete policy that heads in this direction) is futile. Factional warfare be damned, the utter incompetence of the party’s parliamentary wing means I can’t even defend the Liberals when people complain about them to me, let alone give my time & energy to support them.

    Ditch Malcolm (and his cheerleaders like Pyne et al) and I might reconsider, but if an election was held tomorrow I’d vote informal over Liberal in most cases (though I live in Plibersek’s electorate so it wouldn’t make a difference anyway! And the ALP and Greens are worse…) because what I believe in and what the Liberals currently stand for (in a very loose sense, because they don’t stand for anything) are two very different things.

  13. Tim Andrews Says:

    Then spend your time giving the anti-big government backbenchers support!!!!!

  14. B. P. M. Says:

    That’s been your advice to me for months but I can no longer justify it any more because it indirectly supports the status quo – supporting them means supporting Malcolm, Barry, etc. I know your approach is very optimistic – change the Libs from the inside – but I despair of it ever working and I’ve made the decision to cut my losses. There’s all of two politicians I respect in NSW, but there is very little way to support them without supporting the rest of the sad, sorry bunch.

  15. B. P. M. Says:

    Also, I knew that would be your response, but I think it avoids the substantive issue: the Liberals have pretended to be the party of small government, and have abandoned this completely. Why should those of us who believe in limited government bother supporting them any more?

  16. Manny C Says:

    Tim

    The Federal Liberal party is in a shambles on ETS and returning other thing because:
    1. It has abandoned its principles as BPM suggests
    2. Because it has elected a Labor-lit leader who uses the rhetoric of small government when it suits him but doesn’t fight the ideological war in the public domain.

    Has nothing to do with factions.

  17. Manny C Says:

    Return = many

  18. B. P. M. Says:

    Thank you, Manny! I agree completely. The scary thing is that there’s barely any real alternative leader – Hockey would be just as bad, if not worse, and while Abbott is marginally better, he’s a centralist.

  19. Manny C Says:

    But the recent attacks on one Federal MP by his nemesis has convinced me to renew my membership.

    He needs support, Turnbull be damned.

  20. B. P. M. Says:

    You know, that is probably the sole reason I did not resign long ago.

    I think I wouldn’t be so despairing if I could see more renewal in terms of decent people being preselected – at least then I could see that this situation is temporary.

  21. Joe Says:

    Manny C, one Federal MP caused you renew your membership, who was he?

    I used to be optimistic about ‘changing things from the inside’, but the problem is that to the Party has so few idealogues, and the positions seem always to go to the party careerists. Just look at the winners of all the Federal preselections across the states. Personal loyalties/networks over ideas wins everytime.

    The problem is the disease has spread throughtout the body – it’s terminal.

  22. Jake the Muss Says:

    Tim: Personally lobby Alex?

    What? Kind of like when I called up his office about the alcopops tax, was asked if I lived in his electorate, was told they would call me back and never heard from them?

    That kind of lobby?

    I’m sure he fought really hard behind closed doors, before meekly voting against his principles even though four of his colleagues stood up and were counted.

    Maybe I should go lobby them about the ETS.

  23. Tim Andrews Says:

    It is a completely different situation – what we need is for the backbench to vote against the ETS in the partyroom meeting – lobbying can influence that.

  24. Alex Says:

    Tim, when is that? Anytime soon? Today?

  25. Manny Says:

    I have talked to one Federal MP directly about the ETS and even suggested an alternative – the T3 tax. See this: http://ross.mckitrick.googlepages.com/#t3tax

    If taken as policy, this approach to AGW and carbon taxing would wedge the Government. It only imposes a carbon tax if a widely accepted AGW fingerprint (a leading indicator) is measured in a part of the troposphere. (Shock horror: to date it hasn’t appeared). It is smoothed somewhat so that you don’t get unnecessary shocks and would increase dramatically if the fingerprint becomes visible.

    Ross McKitrick, the architect of this proposal is an environmental economist and AGW sceptic. He was also part of the team that uncovered flaws in the original “Hockey Stick”.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_McKitrick

  26. Clare Says:

    The ETS debate has separated the politicans into two camps more than anything before.
    The people that are there for their political careers and therefore live with an irrational fear of a double dissolution (and electoral wipeout) and the group that have principles and vote according to them. Watering down a damaging tax is still supporting a (relatively less) damaging tax.

    Call Tuckey and Joyce crazy, but they crazily believe in something. Alex Hawke will screw us small government Liberals like he screwed over the Christians just to get one step higher in the party.

  27. John Monteray Says:

    Andrews: “Dear NSW Right, Please. Cut it out. Please. I beg you.”

    I’ll get to that in a minute… first, the E.T.S.:

    The battle against the E.T.S. is a federal one. The only “conservative” that Andrews has been associated with from his home state of New South Wales who could do anything about that, is the Member for Mitchell. If Andrews is unhappy with his faction’s performance, he may do better to direct his criticism towards Alex Hawke MP, and not to the non-existent factional conflict at the Federal Liberal level.

    If such a conflict does exist, I am struggling to see where the battlelines are delineated between the “two sides” of Federal MPs. The closest traditionalist conservative opposing the present ideological rot in the Commonwealth Parliament is a Senator from South Australia and one from Western Australia: i.e. the present Party incompetence on the E.T.S. has nothing at all to do with the internal N.S.W. Right split, absolutely nothing what-so-ever.

    Don’t like the Federal “Right” performance from N.S.W. Liberals? Take a look in the mirror. B.P.M. and Mani C. are spot on. The reason why the Federal Liberals are not taking the battle to Labor is probably because their leadership cadre isn’t really in opposition to the leftist Labor government in the first place.

    This can be seen on various levels, the most striking of which was Turnbull’s unbelievable defence of that paedophile Henson so many months ago. In other words, the now very trendy and “progressive” Opposition in Australia cannot really oppose the present leftist government because it isn’t really at odds ideologically with it; after all, traditional conservatism is sooo passé… right?

    Andrews: “I do not care who is right or who is wrong. I really don’t. I’m over it.” A libertarian individualist’s idea of electoral “choice” is between left and right liberalism (link). The results speak for themselves.

    Now back to Andrews’ special pleading in sentence one: Blaming “factionalism” on what is obviously liberal incompetence (see above) betrays the need for a counterbalance within the Party, a counterbalance of people who actually believe something and aren’t hell bent on out-lefting the left on social issues. Stop blaming others for your own mob’s failures. Own it, and then maybe people will think of you more than a wet nose bloger in a plastic suit.

  28. John Monteray Says:

    PS: The broken link in my above post should have been: http://ozconservative.blogspot.com/2007/04/conservatism-vs-liberalism.html

  29. Gary Says:

    Tim got owned.

  30. Tim Andrews Says:

    John Monteray,

    Posting continuously on this blog using different psuedonyms does not exactly do your credibility much good (same goes to the person who posted under the name Clare by the way).

    In any event, you have completely, totally, and utterly missed my point. I have no said that federal MP’s were involved with this at all, I did not blame the Federal problem on the NSW ‘split’, and nor did I mention any sort of Federal factional split. So I am not blaming factionalism for the failure of the party to oppose the ETS.

    Rather, what I said was that people in NSW who are currently spending their time in a pointless and juvenile feud should redirect their energies to lobbying MP’s. Over 2/3 of the backbench oppose Malcolm Turncoat’s plan to sell out to Labor. However, they are in fear and have received little support. Rather than fighting with each other, what liberal party members should have been doing is contacting such MP’s and telling them to do the right thing. Giving their support to them, and/or threatening to withhold it if they do the right thing.

    My call was for party members can actually do something productive to stop the ETS. Nothing more, nothing less.

  31. Tim Andrews Says:

    Also, my name is “Tim” or “Timothy”, not “Andrews”. 🙂

  32. John Monteray Says:

    Andrews: “Posting continuously on this blog using different psuedonyms [sic] does not exactly do your credibility much good” … “Also, my name is ‘Tim’ or ‘Timothy’, not ‘Andrews’.

    I have read your blog on a grand total of three occasions when a link was forwarded to me by a colleague. This was the first time I have contributed to it. If you chose to disbelieve this, then boo-hoo to you and me. John Monteray is the name I was given at birth. While we’re on the subject of names, I do not know you personally and have never met you face to face. I will not therefore refer to you by your Christian name or any other childish cognomen such as Tim, or Timbo, or Tim’meister or The Tim Man or whatever else you are probably use to in the company of your drinking neanderthals.

    Now to the substance of your “rebuttal”. You write: “I have no [sic] said that federal MP’s were involved with this at all, I did not blame the Federal problem on the NSW ’split’, and nor did I mention any sort of Federal factional split. So I am not blaming factionalism for the failure of the party to oppose the ETS.

    You have titled this blog entry as if it were a memo addressed to the “N.S.W. Right”. You then launch into an editorial on the E.T.S. As I have made abundantly clear, the E.T.S. is a federal matter, and if you believe that factionalism is in any way shape or form responsible for the Liberal ineptitude in this area, you should look at any of the Federal MPs from N.S.W. who could but don’t do anything constructive. The only such MP is Alex Hawke, the Member for Mitchell. You avoid his name entirely which indicates plainly that you are protecting him by projecting the “factional” disturbance on the broader faction itself (which, for all intents and purposes, no longer exists).

    Grow up.

  33. Tim Andrews Says:

    1) If indeed you are posting under your real name, then I apologies. I had assumed that as your post had the same NSW Parliament IP address as a previous serial poster (under assumed names) who made similar points, with similar linguistic patterns, than you were the same person. A small number of NSW Parliamentary computers do share the same IP address, so it is possible this was a coincidence. If this is the case, I do apologies.

    2)If you do not know me personally as you claim, you are quite entitled to feel appropriate to use my surname instead of my Christian name. If this is the case, however, basic manners and etiquette dictate you preface it with a “Mr”. This is simple politeness

    3)You once again misunderstand my point. Of course it is a Federal matter, I am not disputing this. What I am saying is that people in NSW who consider themselves on the right of the political spectrum should be dedicating their time to lobbying MP’s to oppose it. Instead, they are spending their time in pointless factional squabbles. Had they invested their time in lobbying Federal MP’s, there might have been a different result. Is this guaranteed? Of course not. But it might have made a difference.

    I specifically did not mention any names because I think people on all sides are to blame for this, and I do not think anyone specifically should be singled out. If you feel otherwise, then that is your prerogative. However, for me, I no longer live in the country, I have little desire to return to internal liberal party politics, and I quite frankly do not care whatsoever about the petty squabbles that are going on or “naming names”. All I was talking about was the productive use of time, energy, and resources.

    If you think protecting factional bickering is acceptable, than that is your right. Personally though, I am going to do all I can to stop Australia’s descent into economic ruin, irrespective of what you say, think, or do.

  34. Tim Andrews Says:

    I mean FFS – I was up until 3am every night of the week last night (and sacrificed pretty much every evening I’ve had for the last month) promoting Not Evil Just Wrong in Australia – a film that I think can seriously impact the debate. I dealt with numerous MP’s, young liberals, other organisations around the country. Why? Because I felt that it would make a difference. Small perhaps, but at least I tried.

    What have you all done?

    So many people run around claiming the conservative mantle, and yet do absolutely nothing for promoting the cause, and instead promote nothing but their own personal agenda. Spend time and energy advancing people on the basis of loyalty, attacking opponents, and forgetting the bigger picture.

    If you worked to lobby MP’s on the ETS, then good on you. I retract my criticisms. But if instead all you did was complain from the sidelines, then you are no better than the scum you criticise.

  35. John Monteray Says:

    Mr. Andrews,

    I accept your apology.

    M.

  36. Sean Says:

    The fall of the Liberals mirrors that of Labour in the UK in the 1980s. We turn into a rump, we mistake ideology for principle, we turn on ourselves. Instead of reaching out to the rest of the community we place arbitrary beliefs in order to call yourself a Liberal.

    The world is moving on and the party is being left behind.

  37. Sean Says:

    John,

    You are the one who should grow up. I mean, you are writing pretty nasty things about Tim but in person I reckon you’d be meek and mild. A grown up doesn’t act this way.

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